Page 1 of 16 
 
Washington Women’s Heritage Project records, 1900-2000 
University of Washington Libraries Special Collections 
Vi Hilbert 
1981  
Cassette 1, Side 2 
 
 
Interviewer 1  00:02 
Public speaking, you know.  
 
Vi Hilbert  00:04 
Hmm, good practice. I wish they had started me when I was your age so I wouldn't have such a 
time now.  
 
Winona Weber  00:14 
When you were growing up-- 
 
Child  00:23 
[Whispering.] 
 
Winona Weber  00:23 
--was it stressed among your people to not not get up in front of other people and sort of show 
yourself off? 
 
Vi Hilbert  00:34 
Oh, that was very strictly stressed with me. "You will not make a spectacle of yourself or be 
loud." That was very bad to be loud. 
 
Winona Weber  00:47 
Do you think that there were people who were sort of picked to be the one to stand up and sort of 
talk, whether just in the tribe--? 
 
Vi Hilbert  01:03 
Mm-hmm. 
 
Winona Weber  01:03 
How were they picked, do you think? 
 
Vi Hilbert  01:06 
Page 2 of 16 
 
If they were taught as children to be quiet and not show off and talk, how was a natural speaker 
going to emerge, huh? 
 
Winona Weber  01:17 
Really. Mm-hmm. But there always seems to be one. 
 
Vi Hilbert  01:21 
Yes, yes.  
 
Winona Weber  01:26 
I've noticed-- I've noticed that in tribes, it seems like a certain person is always the one that gets 
up, you know, when they need someone to talk, or give a speech at tribal days. They always pick 
the same person. I guess they're the only ones comfortable to get up and talk. 
 
Vi Hilbert  01:47 
Now, I have relatives who are public speakers, and they may tell me, "Well, it-- you know, they-
- you're asked to-- as you become an elder, you will be asked, I'm told, every place you go, you 
better have something prepared to say, because you're going to be asked to speak." When I first 
realized that, I, "Well, I should stay home, so I won't have to go through this."  
 
Interviewer 1  02:11 
[Laughter.] Oh. 
 
Vi Hilbert  02:13 
But I, you know, I'm put in a position where I have to say something, and it's very painful, and 
these elders say "Well, it gets easier. You'll have trouble for a while, then it'll get easier." And 
they keep encouraging me, because it's not just a natural gift with me, it's something that I am 
going to have to learn to do. 
 
Winona Weber  02:39 
I think you do very well. I enjoy listening when you get up and talk. When the--  
 
Vi Hilbert  02:48 
I wonder what it is. They tell me it's a gift. Just like any other spirit power that you receive, 
public speaking is one of those gifts. 
 
Winona Weber  03:02 
I really wonder-- and you were talking about how the old one among the Shakers-- how the 
people that have already had the spirit power, when they became Shakers, they became very 
strong Shakers. I wonder why. 
 
Vi Hilbert  03:22 
Well, this was their Skalalitude, their spirit power, showing through and helping. 
 
Interviewer 1  03:32 
Page 3 of 16 
 
Well, in our tribe, we were from what I gathered from hearing my aunt, and everybody talk, 
people were told that they had to give up their Tamanawas to become a Shaker. Were they told 
that in your people?  
 
Vi Hilbert  03:52 
Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Well, in fact, they were forbidden to practice the old religion--  
 
Interviewer 1  03:55 
Oh, yeah?  
 
Vi Hilbert  03:57 
--under penalty of imprisonment.  
 
Winona Weber  04:01 
Imprisonment? Why is that? 
 
Vi Hilbert  04:03 
They had to go underground with their practice.  
 
Interviewer 1  04:06 
Oh, yeah. And that was the government? 
 
Vi Hilbert  04:10 
Mm-hmm. 
 
Interviewer 1  04:11 
Yeah. I know that.  
 
Vi Hilbert  04:12 
And they were afraid of that power. They didn't understand it. 
 
Interviewer 1  04:19 
No, they didn't.  
 
Vi Hilbert  04:21 
So, that's what Treaty Day is about, you know, this Treaty Day that they celebrate every year.  
 
Winona Weber  04:26 
What's that?  
 
Vi Hilbert  04:29 
In January, they have what they call Treaty Day celebration here. And they have a big gathering. 
And all of the dancers, you know, come to celebrate Treaty Day. [Inaudible] you think about, 
"This must be Treaty of 1855 with Governor Stevens, that treaty." That's not the Treaty Day 
they're talking about. It's when their religion was free. Their old religion was freed for them to 
practice again without fear of imprisonment.  
Page 4 of 16 
 
 
Winona Weber  04:59 
Oh, I see. And when was that? I remember hearing about that. 
 
Vi Hilbert  05:02 
That was-- I hear conflicting dates, 1903 or 1905. 
 
Winona Weber  05:07 
Yeah, and they were able to come out of underground, yeah. 
 
Vi Hilbert  05:12 
Mm-hmm. 
 
Child  05:12 
[Whispering]. 
 
Winona Weber  05:16 
Oh, of course. 
 
Vi Hilbert  05:18 
Of course. 
 
Interviewer 1  05:21 
Every once in a while she acts like a good little Indian.  There's another [inaudible]-- [Tape 
noises.]  But did the Shaker religion ask that the people give up their old ways also? 
 
Vi Hilbert  05:36 
Some of them did. There were two factions there. There was the Bible Shakers and there are the 
traditional Shakers. And the Bible Shakers wanted them to give up the-- their original religion. 
And they were-- this was frowned that you could-- you shouldn't go to both places. And my folks 
just ignored it.  
 
Interviewer 1  06:00 
They were they were to the older Shaker religion.  My grandmother was-- I think was with the 
Bible group, because ugh, my mother got some trouble one time; she went to-- in Taholah there 
was a longhouse up until the '30s. And my mom went in there one time and they were having a 
ceremonial and she said she loved it; gosh, she got oranges and all this stuff. And boy did she get 
in trouble when she got home.  Some of the Shakers, definitely, they didn't like, you know, their 
people going to those winter ceremonials.  
 
Vi Hilbert  06:34 
Yes, work of the Devil.  
 
Interviewer 1  06:40 
I could always see a connection between them, between the old Indian doctors and the early 
Shaker religion. 
Page 5 of 16 
 
 
Vi Hilbert  06:50 
Mm-hmm. Their healing powers were the same. No conflict for us, was there? 
 
Interviewer 1  06:57 
I didn't see any, but according to the early Christians, they [?were?]. There was a lot and I just 
couldn't-- I never could understand that. Did you ever travel any length of distance to go to one 
of these winter ceremonials? 
 
Vi Hilbert  07:25 
Well, to all of the communities in our area: Lummi, and Swinomish, and Tulalip. Those three. 
 
Interviewer 1  07:37 
How long-- 
 
Vi Hilbert  07:38 
And Nooksack. 
 
Interviewer 1  07:39 
Yeah, I could imagine. How long would those-- would one of the ceremonials last from, say, 
when you got there? Till when? 
 
Vi Hilbert  07:48 
Sometimes three.  
 
Interviewer 1  07:49 
Three days?  
 
Vi Hilbert  07:50 
Two nights, three days. Three days, two nights. 
 
Interviewer 1  07:55 
Dancing, and...? 
 
Vi Hilbert  07:57 
Mm-hmm. Only light was campfires, was three fires. And that served all purposes: for heat, and 
for cooking, and for light. You just brought your bedding along and your dishes and you slept 
there. And we just as well, because the roads were so muddy, once you got in there, you were 
stuck. 
 
Interviewer 1  08:22 
Yeah, I could imagine.  
 
Winona Weber  08:26 
Where were these winter ceremonials held? Were they held in the longhouses?  
 
Page 6 of 16 
 
Vi Hilbert  08:31 
Yes, always in the longhouses. And every community had one. My Upper Skagits no longer had 
one when I was a girl, but there used to be many, many. My dad's father had a longhouse on the 
Skagit River. That was his home and, you know, for-- well, it was used for ceremonial purposes 
as well as for living quarters. And all of them had this kind of a place.  
 
Winona Weber  08:58 
Do you remember any people when in your lifetime having a longhouse to live in and for 
ceremonial? 
 
Vi Hilbert  09:10 
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.  
 
Winona Weber  09:10 
What was it like in one of their longhouses? I've never been in an actual longhouse. 
 
Vi Hilbert  09:14 
You know, they-- it was just like your ordinary house. I mean, it served all those purposes, only 
many people lived in it. Was a nice, big extended family. I thought it would have been great. 
 
Interviewer 1  09:33 
Most Indians I know, when they were growing up, they were-- they had a large extended family. 
Were all your grandparents dead when you came along? 
 
Vi Hilbert  09:45 
Yes. Yes.  
 
Interviewer 1  09:45 
Oh, that's probably why you didn't have one. 
 
Vi Hilbert  09:54 
[Inaudible] a very sad state of affairs. But I had many, many relatives who I considered aunts and 
uncles, even though my mother had no brothers or sisters alive, and my dad had no brothers and 
sisters alive. Everybody was related to me. Everybody. So I didn't feel a lack there. I guess 
because I was an only child, I felt cherished by all of these people. Spoiled and petted. 
 
Interviewer 1  10:33 
Yeah, I can imagine. Oh. [Inaudible]. A lot of people don't understand-- non-Indians don't 
understand our kinship system. How far out would you think-- how distant are relative do you 
think a person would be, and still, you'd call them "cousin"?  
 
Vi Hilbert  11:10 
That's how we say, you know, "Everybody's my cousin." 
 
Winona Weber  11:14 
I wonder how far. 
Page 7 of 16 
 
 
Vi Hilbert  11:15 
I think if you knew that, say, your mother had a relative that was 10 times away -- a cousin. I 
mean, as long as you could identify that one tiny smidgen of a link, that was a relative. 
 
Interviewer 1  11:41 
Did your family-- did your people have as big a taboo against marrying relatives as we did?  
 
Vi Hilbert  11:49 
Well, I'm sure they did. You shouldn't ever marry anyone any closer-- I mean, a fourth cousin 
was allowed, but third cousin was just like your own brother or sister.  
 
Interviewer 1  12:01 
Yeah. How close would be a third cousin? I'm trying to picture that in my mind. 
 
Vi Hilbert  12:13 
Well, we'd have to get a graph, I guess, because I have no brothers or sisters, it's kind of hard to-- 
 
Interviewer 1  12:22 
[Inaudible] something like-- 
 
Vi Hilbert  12:23 
--quote out.  
 
Interviewer 1  12:23 
--your grandmother's niece, or way out there.  
 
Vi Hilbert  12:32 
[Inaudible.]  
 
Interviewer 1  12:34 
Did you ever have that happen to you, when you met this nice, young-- nice-looking young boy 
and, what, and your mother or one of your other relatives said, "Unh-uh, he's your cousin," or 
something? 
 
Vi Hilbert  12:49 
Nope. Nope. The only taboo there was for people who were interested in courting me was that 
they wrong-- their family wasn't the right status. 
 
Interviewer 1  13:03 
Oh, I see. What was your status? Was your [inaudible]--? 
 
Vi Hilbert  13:07 
Nope, it-- I guess it must have been in the eyes of my own people that they were in the top 
echelon, and somebody from down there shouldn't come knocking on the door. 
 
Page 8 of 16 
 
Interviewer 1  13:25 
Yeah, I understand that. 
 
Vi Hilbert  13:28 
But you see, that was bad manners to talk about anything like that. 
 
Interviewer 1  13:32 
Oh, yeah. It would be, but they'd still kind of discourage people. If someone came around that 
wasn't good enough. 
 
Vi Hilbert  13:41 
In fact, [?the other man?] was sent away very sternly. Had it happen; he'd come to ask if they 
could take me someplace. "Absolutely not." 
 
Interviewer 1  13:54 
How old were you when that happened? 
 
Vi Hilbert  13:55 
Well, I was in high school.  
 
Interviewer 1  13:56 
Oh, I see. That would have been interesting. 
 
Vi Hilbert  14:00 
Embarrassing. I was embarrassed for the poor lads. 
 
Interviewer 1  14:06 
Was he of another tribe that just wasn't considered your tribes equal? 
 
Vi Hilbert  14:11 
Mm-hmm. Not so much tribe as family. 
 
Interviewer 1  14:15 
Oh, families, yeah. I thought maybe there was certain tribes that you weren't allowed to 
[inaudible]. 
 
Vi Hilbert  14:23 
No, not necessarily tribes. 
 
Winona Weber  14:26 
It was just the upper echelon of the family.  
 
Interviewer 1  14:33 
In 1934 all of our tribes -- well, most of them anyway -- were IRA, Indian Reorganization of 
tribes. When you were when you were a young girl, what what sort of leadership was there in 
your tribe? Was it  still chiefly inherited? 
Page 9 of 16 
 
 
Vi Hilbert  14:52 
Mm-hmm. 
 
Interviewer 1  14:52 
Traditional chief? 
 
Vi Hilbert  14:54 
Mm-hmm. 
 
Winona Weber  14:55 
Were there any women leaders? 
 
Vi Hilbert  14:59 
Not that I was aware of. 
 
Interviewer 1  15:09 
The women were more expected to be the homemakers [inaudible]? Have you ever noticed how-
- I don't know that I've only noticed this or not. But it's it's more likely that the girl will be the 
one who's-- who will marry the non-Indian? If-- you know, in a family, if a member of the 
family will marry outside our race, it'll be the girl, usually. I don't notice [tape noises]. 
 
Vi Hilbert  15:50 
--women are marrying outside the race than men. And I hadn't noticed.  
 
Interviewer 1  15:55 
Oh, I see. I thought maybe... 
 
Vi Hilbert  16:00 
People say, well, how-- your people were so protective of who you married; what did they think 
about your non-Indian husband? And they approved of him. He's a good worker. 
 
Winona Weber  16:10 
Which one's that, your--? 
 
Interviewer 1  16:11 
The one that you have now. What did they think of -- what was it -- Percy?  
 
Vi Hilbert  16:18 
Percy was a good worker. That was the criteria.  
 
Winona Weber  16:22 
That he be a hard worker? 
 
Vi Hilbert  16:27 
Good, steady provider. 
Page 10 of 16 
 
 
Interviewer 1  16:30 
Well, I've heard a lot of good about the Woodcock family, you know, they were hard workers. 
They were very intelligent people. 
 
Vi Hilbert  16:38 
Yes, yes. Very intelligent people. Glad my daughter inherited her father's good brains.  
 
Winona Weber  16:46 
What happened to Percy? 
 
Vi Hilbert  16:48 
He died in Alaska. And Bob died, too.  
 
Winona Weber  16:57 
What did Bob do?  
 
Vi Hilbert  17:01 
Bob was kind of a lost soul. I don't know that he-- he worked down at Boeings for a while. 
 
Winona Weber  17:08 
Did you live here in Seattle when you were married? 
 
Vi Hilbert  17:11 
Yes, mm-hmm. When I was married to Bob, yes [inaudible]. Lived in Taholah, of course, when 
Percy and I were married.  
 
Winona Weber  17:18 
Oh, yeah. Had you lived in a small town, well, like, say, when you were growing up and when 
you were married to Percy, pretty much before you got married to Robert, to Bob Coy? 
 
Vi Hilbert  17:32 
Mm-hmm. 
 
Winona Weber  17:34 
Or had you spent very much time in a larger city more like Seattle? 
 
Vi Hilbert  17:40 
Well, I came, you know, from Portland, Oregon, to Taholah. And then from Taholah, here. So 
that's it. 
 
Winona Weber  17:49 
What were your reactions when you-- well, more like, when you went from up around La Conner 
to Portland?  
 
Vi Hilbert  18:01 
Page 11 of 16 
 
Well-- 
 
Interviewer 1  18:01 
Do you have any kind of a [inaudible]? 
 
Vi Hilbert  18:04 
About the big city, or whatever?  
 
Interviewer 1  18:06 
Yeah.  
 
Vi Hilbert  18:09 
No, I guess none of it was a culture shock.  
 
Winona Weber  18:12 
Really?  
 
Vi Hilbert  18:13 
No, because having gone from the little towns up and down the Skagit River, going from there to 
boarding school, see, in Chemawa, that was the big change, to a big boarding school like that, 
where you-- you know, at Tulalip, you went to school with practically everybody that you knew 
already from the communities in the surrounding area. When you got to Chemawa, why, you got 
to [?claim?] those people from all over the United States and Alaska. And that was great; I 
appreciated that. 
 
Interviewer 1  18:53 
Always been sort of a person that was looking for new things, do you think? 
 
Vi Hilbert  18:57 
I guess. So I really enjoyed seeing the different cultures from all over. And I was interested in 
their tribal backgrounds, and how they differed from us. People from Wyoming liked horses and 
open spaces. Alaska, they had interesting things to talk about. 
 
Interviewer 1  19:22 
What would people-- well, I don't know how wooded it is around Chemawa; I've never been 
down-- I've never been to Chemawa. But what do they think-- what would they think when they 
came to the Northwest, with all of our trees and everything, after coming from a place like 
Wyoming or Montana? 
 
Vi Hilbert  19:41 
Well they, I think-- the ones I knew who came from from Wyoming much preferred Wyoming. 
[?Not?] country that they could ever live in. 
 
Winona Weber  19:59 
You suppose there was a big change in diet, for a lot of them  
 
Page 12 of 16 
 
Vi Hilbert  20:03 
[Crosstalk.]  I went with a lad from Nespelem, Washington, and [inaudible]. And Eastern 
Washington was, of course, even much different than Chemawa. Chemawa was sort of like here. 
 
Interviewer 1  20:21 
Did you have to make any kind of an adjustment when you went from where you were living to 
Chemawa? 
 
Vi Hilbert  20:33 
No, I guess not. It was, I felt, not quite as strict in Chemawa as it was in Tulalip, but it was-- you 
had chores that you were assigned, and I appreciated the fact that I knew how to get things done. 
You could choose what you wanted to do there, the kind of discipline you were interested in. I 
was interested in hospital work, so I got to work in the hospital. 
 
Interviewer 1  21:05 
Did you work in Chemawa at the hospital-- 
 
Vi Hilbert  21:08 
Yes. 
 
Interviewer 1  21:08 
--for the full time you were there? 
 
Vi Hilbert  21:10 
For-- yes. That was my vocation. And then, of course, you had to do other chores for your board 
and room, like work in the dining hall, work in the kitchen. We spent a certain number of hours 
in each of those places and then you were taught your vocation. And so I worked in the hospital 
for that, and that was excellent experience. I got practical experience, there. And all-- rotating in 
all different areas in the hospital, and be in charge of the diet, kitchen, [?providing?] the meals 
for the patients and for the staff in the hospital. And working on the wards and then doing 
medications, doing housekeeping. You got this experience in everything, and it was marvelous. 
 
Interviewer 1  22:09 
When you were at Chemawa, did you have a full academic day and then go to work in the 
hospital? Or was it-- 
 
Vi Hilbert  22:18 
Half a day. Half a day. Mm-hmm. 
 
Winona Weber  22:21 
Was that part of your decision to go to Portland?  Because you weren't getting [inaudible]? 
 
Vi Hilbert  22:25 
Right. 
 
Winona Weber  22:29 
Page 13 of 16 
 
What type of subjects did you miss taking at Chemawa that you had a chance to in Portland? 
 
Vi Hilbert  22:37 
Well, I don't think it was so much the subjects as it was the instruction. I think that it was just 
much too easy in this boarding house, boarding school situation. The-- most of the teachers there 
were too lax. They didn't have the kind of discipline that I felt they should have had. 
 
Winona Weber  23:02 
Were the classrooms rowdy or-- 
 
Vi Hilbert  23:09 
Oh, no. 
 
Winona Weber  23:09 
--was it just that they were just too slow? 
 
Vi Hilbert  23:12 
Just slow, not demanding enough. I just didn't feel we were getting enough of what we should 
have to make a go of it on the outside world. And then if you couldn't get an assignment, well, 
you knew all of the real smart kids in the boarding school; you could go and say, you know, 
"How did you do that? How did you do that?" And that wasn't really learning.  
 
Interviewer 1  23:40 
No, I [inaudible]. 
 
Vi Hilbert  23:44 
I guess some people would consider that was getting by, but I don't think that you can afford to 
just get by. I think you have to learn. And I got A's in algebra. And I studied with one of my 
boyfriends. And we would do this-- our homework together, drill each other, and you had just 
memorized stuff [inaudible]. That was easy. You could memorize it long enough to pass the test, 
to get A's. 'Cause I don't-- didn't really learn anything about how [?phi-algebra?]. But I could get 
A's in it when I was taking it. I loved English and composition and things like this. 
 
Interviewer 1  24:29 
Well that stood you [laughs] really well.  How did you do when you went to Portland in your 
mathematics? 
 
Vi Hilbert  24:37 
[Crosstalk]-- well, math was almost my [inaudible], I think. I hated math and I guess I must have 
squeaked by with passing grades but I never ever felt I knew anything about math. Never. And I 
just about flunked the only foreign language I ever took, which was Latin. And I had a miserable, 
dull teacher. I thought, well, even if this subject is, you know, miserable and dull, I could have a 
teacher who couldn't make it a little more interesting. But I chose Latin because I wanted to 
continue with the nursing discipline. And also because I felt that Latin could help my English. 
And it did.  
 
Page 14 of 16 
 
Interviewer 1  25:30 
Yeah. English is based on a lot of Latin. 
 
Vi Hilbert  25:36 
But in Chemawa, we were sadly lacking in any sciences. I don't recall that they taught any 
sciences. They had one teacher who taught something that was supposed to take the place of 
science, and I don't remember what it was now, something if you would be required if you went 
to college. But he was one of these poor excuses of a teacher, who really didn't teach anything. 
He drew a salary, but he didn't teach anything. And to me, that was criminal. 
 
Interviewer 1  26:16 
Do you think that most of the teachers there at Chemawa were poor teachers? 
 
Vi Hilbert  26:22 
I would say over half of them were. 
 
Winona Weber  26:27 
And the government is sending you there to learn. 
 
Vi Hilbert  26:30 
Mm-hmm. 
 
Winona Weber  26:32 
Some of those kids probably would have been better to stay in Wyoming [laughs].  
 
Vi Hilbert  26:39 
Mm-hmm. 
 
Interviewer 1  26:39 
I was looking at your basket there. 
 
Vi Hilbert  26:42 
Mm-hmm, that's a Macaw. Cradle. 
 
Interviewer 1  26:47 
Were the babies in your tribe carried in cradle boards until they were... what? 
 
Vi Hilbert  26:52 
I never ever saw any; I just heard about them. 
 
Interviewer 1  26:56 
Was the-- in our tribe, the people of the upper rank had flattened heads.  
 
Vi Hilbert  27:02 
Oh, yes. Mm-hmm, my dad had a flat head; my dad had a flattened head. 
 
Page 15 of 16 
 
Interviewer 1  27:03 
Was that true? What about your mother?  
 
Vi Hilbert  27:08 
No. 
 
Winona Weber  27:09 
I wonder why. 
 
Vi Hilbert  27:11 
Well, I guess her-- because her mother died and her grandmother raised her, why, it wasn't 
stressed. Her grandmother didn't have time to fool around with that sort of thing.  
 
Interviewer 1  27:24 
Oh [inaudible] [laughter]. 
 
Vi Hilbert  27:27 
Then she was probably too old by the time my grandmother had her, [?you know?], to have that 
happen. 
 
Interviewer 1  27:33 
Yeah, you'd have to catch 'em when they were a newborn to flatten their heads. But there were 
women in your village that--  
 
Vi Hilbert  27:44 
Oh, yes. [Inaudible]. There was the woman who was my son's great grandmother who had her 
head flattened like my dad's. 
 
Winona Weber  28:03 
How far-- how high a social rank would you have to have in your tribe to have a flattened head? 
 
Vi Hilbert  28:11 
Well, this would be the top echelon. This is why they had the right to have their heads flattened. 
Not just everybody could flatten their heads. But if you were a leader, then you had the right to 
flatten children's heads. 
 
Winona Weber  28:37 
What do you think made that die out? How come they don't-- they didn't do that with your 
generation? Do you have any people of your generation that have flattened heads? 
 
Vi Hilbert  28:48 
No, no, mm-mm, no. I don't know what-- never heard any discussion about it. 
 
Interviewer 1  28:56 
Did the Shakers discourage it? 
 
Page 16 of 16 
 
Vi Hilbert  28:58 
I never heard. Just never heard any discussion.  
 
Interviewer 1  29:01 
I know the other Christian religions, some of them discouraged any [inaudible]. That was right 
up there with Tamanawas. 
 
Vi Hilbert  29:07 
Mm-hmm. 